Trying to Get Romanian Citizenship Again

In early 2014 I was told that I couldn't get Romanian citizenship by the embassy in Lima. This was confirmed again in summer of 2014 by the consulate in Chicago.

However, about a week ago I was put in contact with a lawyer named Ioan-Luca Vlad (Linked / Facebook) who has been working as an attorney with the Romanian Royal Family for 9 years. He also has a website called Romanian Documents. He has a lot of experience with difficult cases such as mine and was able to help the Royal Family get their Romanian documents even though they had none.

I do have lots of roadblocks. I have had 3 legal names in the US (maiden, marriage, marriage) and 2 legal names in Peru (maiden, marriage) and documents from 3 countries (USA, Peru, Korea). I also found out that the document issued by the Ministry of Internal Affairs that I thought said my mom still has citizenship simply says she was a citizen when she left Romania.

If everything goes well I should be able to get a new Romanian birth certificate (with a valid CNP), get my mom a CNP, and get a document saying I'm Romanian. If I'm lucky I might get a Romanian passport. We're not exactly sure how things will go due to all the names I have had and documents from all these countries, but we will see how it goes. In addition, the Romanian Embassy here in Seoul will not let me give Ioan-Luca power of attorney (even though they let me give it to my ex) since I don't speak Romanian. We are trying to find a work-around but that just further complicates things.

I'm very excited about all this and hope things go well. Even if things don't work out I can honestly said I exhausted all possibilities trying to get citizenship.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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They've Revoked My Romanian Birth Certificate and I'm Giving Up for Good

As you probably remember my docs were submitted to the Embassy of Romania in Peru at the end of October 2013. I was told it would be 3-4 weeks. So at the end of November, they asked for a link between my maiden name and married name and said it would be a little while longer. But their hands were tied, it was up to Bucharest to do what they had to do.

I thought that I'd hear something by January. I just received a long email from the embassy quoting laws, which are just letters and numbers to me. The long and short of it is that they've cancelled my birth certificate, so now I have nothing. They've cited that article 40 alin (2) of Law no. 119/1996 wasn't respected when I got my birth certificate (since the consul of Peru gave me my birth certificate, I completely blame him for not respecting the laws). According to article 57 of law no. 119/1996 and article 127 about civil status documents approved by government decision no. 64/2011 they've decided to revoke my birth certificate.

My mom still has a piece of paper from the Ministry of Internal Affairs stating that she's Romanian, however, the Chicago consulate has refused to register her marriage stating that she needs a passport and refuses to give her a passport stating that she needs to have her marriage registered. And let's not even get started with the fact that she has no CNP because they didn't exist when she was born.

I've been trying to get Romanian citizenship for years and years now. I've run into brick walls and kept going, but I think this is the straw that broke the camel's back. It's time to say this is enough and move on. For some reason it's simply not meant to be.

Ironically, this Saturday I received an email from someone who came across this blog and he wrote this, "May I ask you why you want to learn a useless language and get a useless citizenship from a f***ed up country like Romania ...I don't know what to do next in order to get out of this cursed place as soon as possible."

In some ways that sums up how I feel right now. Romanians have been leaving Romania in droves now that they're in the EU. How they got into the EU I don't know, though from talking to Romanians it seems to be a well-known secret that they outright lied about various issues in order to get in. The Romanian government sure has a long, long way to go to reach EU standards. The low salaries, high cost of living, and rampant bribery all add to the problem. Everyone in my family was asking me, "But Sharon, WHY do you want to become a Romanian citizenship?" There are many reasons why I want to get Romanian citizenship. However, I'm starting to see more and more problems with how the country is run.

I'm trying to get in, while many Romanians want out. Enough is enough, if you want to move on you simply have to move on.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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More docs required for my CNP

I mentioned that I had sent all my docs to my husband in Peru and given him POA to try to get my CNP and register our marriage. In late October he went to the embassy and they said that first I needed a CNP. Earlier this week they asked for a copy of our marriage cert to show a link between my maiden name and my married name. Now they want a "constancia" which is like a record of proof showing how I got my Romanian birth certificate.

I don't understand it. I didn't think that I'd have to prove how I had gotten something. If I have my birth cert, which the embassy has recognised as true and valid, I shouldn't have to go back a step and show the documents I showed in the first place when I got it.

But I do have to show a constancia proving my claim to citizenship, which is the letter from the Ministry of Internal Affairs stating that my mom's a citizen.

They haven't given a time frame this time. I'm guessing that since St. Nicholas Day, Christmas, and Orthodox Christmas are coming up in December and January I probably won't hear anything until the end of January.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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Helpful People at the Romanian Embassy in Seoul

I had problems with the Romanian embassy's email. Their email is now embassy@romania.ollehoffice.net

The man I spoke to on the phone was very nice and polite. He told me to send him copies of my documents and he would see what he could do. I sent him a scan of my Romanian birth cert, my mother's Romanian birth cert, and the letter from the Ministry of Internal Affairs stating that my mother is Romanian. Neither my mother's nor my birth certificates have CNPs.

I just went to the embassy today with my daughter. The woman I spoke to was so incredibly nice. Very polite and wonderful English. She also didn't tell me that I had to speak Romanian in order to get a passport (which is what people usually tell us, though since I'm applying to become Romanian due to birth rights it shouldn't matter. I'm not asking to be naturalised, I'm simply asking to get citizenship through my mother). She said that I need my CNP and that it usually takes 3 months. I told her that I'd been trying to get citizenship since 1999, so another three months isn't that much.

She copied my Romanian birth cert and my mother's Romanian birth cert. As well as my mother's proof of citizenship from the Ministry of the Interior. She says she will contact Sector 1 in Bucharest. After I get my CNP I have to register my marriage and that can either be done in Peru or Romania, so it looks like I might be going back to Romania. After that then I can get my passport. I'm excited, but I know that I've been so close before so I'm trying not to get my hopes up.

Fingers crossed it will work!

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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Organising Documents Once Again

I'm in the US and got the folder of documents that my lawyer sent. I've organised everything and am hoping to go to the embassy in Seoul in August. One of my friends knows someone at the embassy and another one of my friends is Romanian. I'm hoping that somehow one (or both of them) will be able to help me out some way or another and I can finally get my CNP and my passport.

I've got ...

• My American original birth cert (with my mom's name change so that it matches her US naturalisation record) as well as a translation with apostillisation.
• My Romanian original birth cert.
• An apostilised copy of my mom's new Romanian birth cert.
• My mom's marriage cert (with my mom's name change so that it matches her US naturalisation record) as well as a translation with apostillisation.
• An original letter from the Ministry of Internal Affairs stating that my mom is a Romanian citizen. 
• My original Peruvian marriage cert as well as a translation with apostillisation. 
• Permission from my husband to register my marriage.
• Permission from my husband to change my name. 
• My husband's original Peruvian birth cert as well as a translation with apostillisation.
• An apostillised copy with translation of my husband's Peruvian passport.
• My grandfather's original death cert as well as a translation with apostillisation.

Here's hoping it works!

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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Good news!

My lawyer and his wife are fantastic!  My mom was feeling very bad about not getting her birth cert to me.  I'm wary about it having sent through the mail.  We were told you only get one and that's it. No more.  You lose it, you're in trouble.

Well, seems like they were wrong.  Or things changed.  My lawyer and his wife have gotten it re-issued in Bucharest.  So they have it there, just waiting for me to come.  I'll be bringing my Romanian birth cert (sans the ID number that they left off).

So with my mom's birth cert and my birth cert, both from Romania, we should get somewhere.  I don't think I could get my passport, since we have to have Romania re-issue all the non-Romanian documents, like
1. My husband's birth cert from Peru
2. Our marriage cert from Peru
3. My grandfather's death cert from the US
4. My parent's marriage cert from the US

That's ok if I don't get my passport.  I'll be happy if I can get a document from the Ministry of Internal Affairs saying that I'm a citizen, like they gave my mom.

I don't know why.  They've been apostillised and translated, but we have been told that they have to be re-issued in Romania.  Maybe that means registered.  Not sure.  Either way, I'll be there soon and it'll be great to visit a country I've been wanting to visit for years!

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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Applying for my passport

Finally, after years of paperwork and wild goose chases, we found out that my mom is still a citizen. Due to this, I can apply for a passport. Here's all the items my lawyer will be submitting. Not all of these are original forms, but certified copies are all my lawyer needs.

● My Romanian birth cert and American birth cert
● My Peruvian marriage cert (for name purposes)
● Mom's birth certs (old and new one)
● Mom's American marriage cert
● My passport
● Power of Attorney
● Declaration of no criminal record
● Cert of Mom's Citizenship issued by the Immigration Office of the Ministry of Internal Affairs

The passport application normally takes 30 working days, but we're going to allow 60 for possible delays, because things always take longer! They may not physically give my lawyer my passport, because the power of attorney authorizes them to apply for citizenship (which would include the passport, but not to receive it, and they might want to see my American passport (so I'd have to send it to my lawyer).

The way around this is that my lawyer will request them to send it an embassy. I might have to sign a sworn declaration, but that would hopefully be the last thing I'd have to sign. Then a couple weeks later I could pick up my passport. Worse case senario, is that I'd have to go to Romania and get it. But, I'm planning on going to Europe anyways for the summer.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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FAQ: Why do you want to be Romanian?

Question
Congratulations! Once you have your Romanian passport, how will that help you with your professional goals?

Answer Kind of personal / professional. IF I get the passport, then my husband and I would consider settling down there. It would be a halfway point between living in the US and living in Peru. It won't be his country, nor mine, but ours. We'd both have to struggle with things, but I think less so than if we went to our respective countries. He could get citizenship. Romanian would be MUCH easier for him to adapt to both culturally and language wise (He's already able to translate gov't docs just due to knowing Spanish). I've heard the job market isn't the best there, so we're also considering Saudi for a bit to save. Hopefully by the time we leave Korea we'll be able to buy another flat in Peru and basically save all the rent we get and live off of whatever we make in Romania. Basically, Europe would be open to both of us. Even if we don't work there, we could own property, send our kids to school, hopefully get pension, etc. If I could stay in Korea for five years at this same job, my pension would go up a lot. If we had kids, then we'd have to decide whether to stay in Korea, move to Romania, or go to Saudi. Question Awesome, NG. Acum, poti invata romaneste!! Espanol le ayudara. I'm a little envious. Congrats. Answer Don't be jealous just yet I've still got to get the passport. If it makes you feel any better, I first called the consulate in fall 1999. This hasn't been easy! Anyways, finding out that the Ministry of Internal Affairs recognises my mom as a citizen is wonderful news!

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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Mom's a citizen

Updated 17 October 2015

I found out that this document just says my mom was a citizen when she left Romania.

Good news: My lawyer sent me confirmation that my mom is a citizen from the Ministry of Internal Affairs! She never had her citizenship revoked and never renounced it. Yea! So hopefully I'll be getting my passport this year! (My grandfather did renounce his citizenship. No info about my grandmother's Romanian citizenship. But none of that mattes. My mom IS a citizen, therefore I can get citizenship.)

So excited!

Things are taking longer than we think, though. We applied for confirmation of citizenship in July 2010 and were told that we'd find out 4 months later, in September 2010. However, we just found out now. So it actually took 9 months.

FYI: Romanian citizenship during the Communist regime.
I have been told that any Romanian who left during the Communist regime were considered traitors by having committed "high treason" and thus revoked of Romanian citizenship. However, since the fall of communism, laws have changed. The 1991 law basically cancels the revocation of citizenship due to its extreme political nature, therefore, my mom still has citizenship (which has been proved by the Romanian Ministry of Internal Affairs). My grandfather's is a different matter. He willingly renounced his citizenship. If we had wanted his to be restored, that would be another legal matter.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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A bit of good news

In August 2008, we found out that if we can prove that my mom is still a citizen, then I'd be a citizen. We sent the documents, but due to personal issues on both sides (myself and my lawyer) we decided to put the project on hold in August 2009. We started up again earlier this year after I got my Romanian birth cert!

The Chicago consulate doesn't recognise her citizenship on the basis that her passport has long expired, she doesn't speak Romanian, and she hasn't lived there since she left. Fortunately, the UNHCR and the Romanian Consitution disagree with the Chicago consulate.

Giving Up Romanian Citizenship
According to Romanian law, my mother can't have had her Romanian citizenship revoked, because it was required by birth.

This is from EICEE.
(1) Romanian citizenship can be acquired, retained or lost as provided for by the organic law.
(2) Romanian citizenship cannot be withdrawn if acquired by birth.

This is from UNHCR: Article 5 (section 2) of the Constitution of Romania that was adopted by the Romanian Parliament on 21 November 1991 indicates that Romanian nationality acquired by birth cannot be taken away from anyone (Monitorul Oficial 21 Nov. 1991). The UNHCR also has an English copy of Romanian citizenship laws.

Next Steps
Therefore if either my grandfather, grandmother, or my mother is still registered as a Romanian according to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, then I would be Romanian and could get the passport. I doubt that my grandmother would be listed as a citizen, since she was naturalised and therefore her citizenship was easier to revoke. We're hoping that my mom is still a citizen, since my grandfather passed away and my mom is closer to me by ancestry.

So, if can prove that my mom is still a citizen and hasn't renounced her citizenship or had it revoked, then I'd be a citizen. We're 100% sure that she never renounced it since she couldn't talk when she left Romania. Now we just have to prove that Romania never revoked her of her citizenship, which incidentally, is no illegal according to UNHCR and the Romanian Constitution.

I should find out by September. That's about two months. Though I'm not holding my breath since things seem to take a long time to get done in Romania.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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Quick summary of dates

Last updated 20 March 2017

Here's a quick rundown of all the important events that happened while I was trying to get Romanian citizenship. I've now given up a few times and am currently trying once again. All the links take you my blog posts where you can read more about what happened. You also might want to take a look at the FAQs.

2017

• February 2017: Birth certificate cancelled

2016

• October 2016: News from Romania about correcting my birth certificate.
• December 2016: My second daughter was born.

2015

• July 2015: Took all my Romanian documents back to my parents' house.
• August 2015: Married a wonderful man.
• September 2015: Trying again with Dr. Ioan-Luca Vlad (attorney for the Royal Family).
• November 2015: Told to get the mandates (POA) signed at the Romanian Embassy in Seoul. 
• November 2015: Signed the mandates (POA) at the Romanian Embassy in Seoul. 
• December 2015: Sent my American birth certificate to my lawyer.

2014

• January 2014: Divorced was finalised.
• February 2014: They revoked my birth certificate and I'm giving up. 
• February 2014: My work plans for Romania. 
• July 2014: Tried the Chicago consulate again: officially giving up.

2013

• May 2013: My husband and I separated; he's in Peru. My daughter and I are in Korea. 
• July 2013: Quick update about citizenship. 
• July 2013: Organising all the docs my lawyer sent me. 
• July 2013: Having problems with Seoul's Romanian Embassy's email.
• August 2013: Visited the Romanian Embassy in Seoul. 
• September 2013: My mom's mom died. 
• September 2013: Got an email from the Romanian Embassy in Seoul.
• September 2013: The Romanian Embassy in Seoul called me. 
• September 2013: Trying to register my marriage at the Romanian Embassy in Peru. 
• October 2013: Why I'm still trying to get Romanian citizenship. 
• October 2013: I sent a Power of Attorney to register my marriage and get my CNP. 
• October 2013: My husband went to the Romanian Embassy in Peru. 
• November 2013: They can't issue me my CNP yet because of my name change. 
• November 2013: More docs needed for my CNP. 

2012

• January 2012: Hoping this will be the year I get my passport!
• January 2012: My husband, my mother and I all signed two documents.
• January 2012: My husband and I had to re-do 4 documents.
• February 2012: Got the documents apostillised.
• March 2012: All the docs are in Romania.
• March 2012: No news is bad news.

2011

• February 2011: My husband came back to Korea. We got pregnant right away :)
• February 2011: Got confirmation from Romania that my mother is still a citizen.
• February 2011: Lawyer put in my Romanian passport request. Fingers crossed!
• April 2011: Catch 22 with marriage and passport.
• May 2011: Flight booked to Romania. Will be travelling there alone and 7 months pregnant.
• July 2011: Won't have mom's birth cert in Romania though my lawyer can get another one.
• July 2011: In Romania. Start by reading Day 1, My First Impressions of Romania.
• August 2011: In Bucharest, Iasi, and Timisoara. Day trips to Sinaia and Brasov.
• October 2011: Need my husband's permission to register our marriage and change my name.
• October 2011: Husband signed docs.
• October 2011: Our daughter, TMI was born.
• October 2011: Problems getting docs apostillised.
• December 2011: The MFA in Lima won't apostillise our docs.
• December 2011: Got docs signed in Korea.

2010

• January 2010: Got my Romanian birth certificate.
• January 2010: Left Peru in order to move back to Korea.
• February 2010: Spent time in the USA.
• February 2010: Moved back to Korea.
• June 2010: Husband moved to Korea.
• July 2010: Asked the Ministry of Internal Affairs to see if anyone in my family is still a citizen.
• September 2010: Husband moved back to Peru.
• November 2010: Went to Seoul embassy to see if I could use birth cert to get passport.

2009

• March 2009: Became a Peruvian citizen due to marriage.
• March 2009: Put Romanian citizenship project on temporary hold.
• December 2009: Applied for my Romanian birth cert.

2008

• February 2008: Moved back to Peru.
• March 2008: Sent documents to lawyer and trying to study Romanian. 
• May 2008: Changed tactics. If we prove my mom's a citizen then I'd get citizenship by default. 
• August 2008: Sent more documents to lawyer. Still waiting and studying Romanian.   
• October 2008: More docs sent off.
• November 2008: Still waiting.

2007

• January 2007: Applied to correct mom's US marriage certificate and my US birth cert.
• June 2007: UNHCR laws prohibit citizenship from being revoked if acquired by birth.
• August 2007: Started contacting lawyers.
• August 2007: Found a god lawyer.
• August 2007: Got correct docs: my birth certificate and mom's corrected marriage certificate. 
• September 2007: Signed a contract with an Irish lawyer who's living in Romania.
• September 2007: Having (more) issues with the Chicago consulate.
• October 2007: Having issues with the Romanian embassy in Lima.
• November 2007: Moved to Korea.
• November 2007: My mom got the docs I sent her from Peru.

2006

• January 2006: Gave up. The Chicago consulate denied my mom's a Romanian citizen.
• February 2006: I got married in Peru.
• October 2006: Started trying again.
• December 2006: Visited the Romanian embassy in Lima, Peru.

2005

• January 2005: All my mom's documents have been translated.
• January 2005: My mom got her US passport, but it has her old name.
• March 2005: My mom has problems with all her different names. See also Name Change.
• May 2005: My father's mom died.
• July 2005: Name change request for my mom's birth cert finalized (took about 9 months).
• July 2005: Told that we needed to change my mom's marriage cert as well.

2004

• October 2004: Started process to get a Romanian passport.
• November 2004: Submitted mother's name change request for her Romanian birth certificate.

1999

• Fall 1999: Called the Chicago consulate and was told that my mom wasn't Romanian because she hadn't lived there for years and didn't speak Romanian.

In the beginning

• 1950s: Mom was born in Romania. 
• 1950s: Mom moved to U.S. at when she was about 1 year old with my grandmother and my aunt. Her dad came 3 years later. 
• 1960s: Mom was naturalized as an American at age 9, and changed her name from Mihaela to Michele as well as the the order of her given names.
• 1980s: I was born
• 1990s: My mom's dad died.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

Disclaimer:

• Please join my Patreon page
• University of Toronto's Online TEFL Course