Took All My Romanian Documents Back to My Parents' House

Since in early 2014 I was told that I couldn't get Romanian citizenship by the embassy in Lima and this was confirmed again in summer of 2014 by the consulate in Chicago, I decided to take my huge folder back to my parents' house in the USA and leave it there. I've have mixed feelings about all this, but I've been given closure so it's ok. 

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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Some Sad News to Report

My mom's mom died today. She was the one who went to live in Romania as a child and left with my mom and aunt to go to the US. She left my grandfather behind thinking she'd never see him again, luckily our family knew a senator who was able to work relentlessly and bring him to the US a couple years later. She will be missed greatly.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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FAQ: Why was your mom's Romanian citizenship revoked?

Question
I don't think your family's citizenship was revoked automatically by leaving. I know plenty of people who left and retained their citizenship. I also know others who had to intentionally renounce their Romanian citizenship in order to get citizenship in another country (e.g. Austria). The people I know who renounced it were either already out of the country or had an offer of citizenship before they left (e.g. from Germany or Israel). In both cases, they were able to get it back after 1990 as long as their new country of citizenship allowed dual citizenship.

Answer
My family left when Romania was communist; they basically committed "high treason" because they left permanently and have never been back.

Romanian citizenship during the Communist regime.
I have been told that any Romanian who left during the Communist regime were considered traitors by having committed "high treason" and thus revoked of Romanian citizenship. However, since the fall of Communism, laws have changed. The 1991 law basically cancels the revocation of citizenship due to its extreme political nature, therefore, my mom still has citizenship (we just have to prove it). My grandfather's is a different matter. He willingly renounced his citizenship. If we had wanted his to be restored, that would be another legal matter.

Question
Where was your grandma from? What was her original citizenship? Did she actually get Romanian citizenship? Marriage alone doesn't grant citizenship. It only helps you get a long term residence permit.

If you want your kids to have Romanian citizenship, then just give birth there. Have you tried different lawyers? Maybe a different lawyer would provide different results.

Answer
Grandma was born in the US to German parents. However, US citizenship laws at that time allowed my aunt to get US citizenship since my grandma wasn't married at the time. My mom was only Romanian since her father was Romanian and my grandmother was a couple months short of the 10 years necessary to pass on citizenship. I've asked my grandmother about this American-Romanian citizenship stuff, but she can't remember. I'm not sure if she's just getting old or has blocked it from her memory. Romania wasn't the nicest place when she lived there.

Can't just give birth in Romania. Laws have changed. That's like saying if I gave birth in Korea my kids would be Korean. It's jus sanguine (meaning citizenship is passed on by ancestry, like the majority of countries nowadays), not jus tierra (citizenship is given by the country where you give birth, like the US).

it has nothing to do with my lawyer. It's just the way things are in Romania. Everyone seems to say something different and then change their mind a day later.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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FAQ: What does the UNHCR say about rights to citizenship?

Question
If Romania is a signatory to the UNHCR, then you have a right to Romanian citizenship. You have a right to return to the country of your birth. You cannot lose your citizenship unless you specifically denounce/renounce citizenship (and this is a specific process). Bureaucrats are playing politics.

The solution is often beating them at their game before they play. Do the research. Quote the law at them. Treaties are legally binding and modify existing law (e.g. the Constitution) unless specifically overturned in court. What often happens is that something is rejected on a technicality. This protects the bureaucrat from responsibility.

The solution is twofold- give them legal basis to grant your claim and thereby protect them from mistakes. If Romania give Grandma citizenship, then she's got it. Next step (separate) apply for your own citizenship. One step at a time. You don't always dump all ingredients into a pan to make bread (dough must be kneaded, etc.) so why should you do other things that way?

Best wishes.

Answer
Romania's laws during the communist regime say that if you LEFT Romania, no matter what age, your citizenship was revoked. Here's what makes it worse. When my grandfather he left he wasn't even given a Romanian passport, just papers.

My grandmother was Romanian through marriage. She left with my mom and my aunt. They were given "stateless" passports, which according to the UNHCR isn't possible. I guess the loophole is that they were on my grandma's passport. Since she was a naturalised Romanian citizenship, maybe they could revoke her citizenship. And since my mom and my aunt were underage, they were simply put on my grandma's passport.

I've tried. Seriously I have. I'm ready to pull my hair out.

So in theory, if you want to uphold communist regime laws, then no one in my family HAS citizenship and we'd have to re-acquire it. My mom and I can't since our Romanian language skills aren't that good. They have to be fluent. And one the main reasons why I'm doing this is so that my kids can be citizens and I have to get citizenship before they're born and it looks like that's not going to happen.

I've tried quoted laws. For the past 10 years I've been searching for laws, Israel has the most compentent info. I FINALLY got my birth cert, after nearly a decade. Now they say it's no good. It's a Catch 22. Simply put: they don't WANT me to have citizenship, so I probably won't get it.

Until you've dealt with Romanian govt officials, you really have no idea what you're getting yourself into. I have a lawyer and he's also given the run around. They don't want us. That's it.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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Quick summary of dates

Last updated 20 March 2017

Here's a quick rundown of all the important events that happened while I was trying to get Romanian citizenship. I've now given up a few times and am currently trying once again. All the links take you my blog posts where you can read more about what happened. You also might want to take a look at the FAQs.

2017

• February 2017: Birth certificate cancelled

2016

• October 2016: News from Romania about correcting my birth certificate.
• December 2016: My second daughter was born.

2015

• July 2015: Took all my Romanian documents back to my parents' house.
• August 2015: Married a wonderful man.
• September 2015: Trying again with Dr. Ioan-Luca Vlad (attorney for the Royal Family).
• November 2015: Told to get the mandates (POA) signed at the Romanian Embassy in Seoul. 
• November 2015: Signed the mandates (POA) at the Romanian Embassy in Seoul. 
• December 2015: Sent my American birth certificate to my lawyer.

2014

• January 2014: Divorced was finalised.
• February 2014: They revoked my birth certificate and I'm giving up. 
• February 2014: My work plans for Romania. 
• July 2014: Tried the Chicago consulate again: officially giving up.

2013

• May 2013: My husband and I separated; he's in Peru. My daughter and I are in Korea. 
• July 2013: Quick update about citizenship. 
• July 2013: Organising all the docs my lawyer sent me. 
• July 2013: Having problems with Seoul's Romanian Embassy's email.
• August 2013: Visited the Romanian Embassy in Seoul. 
• September 2013: My mom's mom died. 
• September 2013: Got an email from the Romanian Embassy in Seoul.
• September 2013: The Romanian Embassy in Seoul called me. 
• September 2013: Trying to register my marriage at the Romanian Embassy in Peru. 
• October 2013: Why I'm still trying to get Romanian citizenship. 
• October 2013: I sent a Power of Attorney to register my marriage and get my CNP. 
• October 2013: My husband went to the Romanian Embassy in Peru. 
• November 2013: They can't issue me my CNP yet because of my name change. 
• November 2013: More docs needed for my CNP. 

2012

• January 2012: Hoping this will be the year I get my passport!
• January 2012: My husband, my mother and I all signed two documents.
• January 2012: My husband and I had to re-do 4 documents.
• February 2012: Got the documents apostillised.
• March 2012: All the docs are in Romania.
• March 2012: No news is bad news.

2011

• February 2011: My husband came back to Korea. We got pregnant right away :)
• February 2011: Got confirmation from Romania that my mother is still a citizen.
• February 2011: Lawyer put in my Romanian passport request. Fingers crossed!
• April 2011: Catch 22 with marriage and passport.
• May 2011: Flight booked to Romania. Will be travelling there alone and 7 months pregnant.
• July 2011: Won't have mom's birth cert in Romania though my lawyer can get another one.
• July 2011: In Romania. Start by reading Day 1, My First Impressions of Romania.
• August 2011: In Bucharest, Iasi, and Timisoara. Day trips to Sinaia and Brasov.
• October 2011: Need my husband's permission to register our marriage and change my name.
• October 2011: Husband signed docs.
• October 2011: Our daughter, TMI was born.
• October 2011: Problems getting docs apostillised.
• December 2011: The MFA in Lima won't apostillise our docs.
• December 2011: Got docs signed in Korea.

2010

• January 2010: Got my Romanian birth certificate.
• January 2010: Left Peru in order to move back to Korea.
• February 2010: Spent time in the USA.
• February 2010: Moved back to Korea.
• June 2010: Husband moved to Korea.
• July 2010: Asked the Ministry of Internal Affairs to see if anyone in my family is still a citizen.
• September 2010: Husband moved back to Peru.
• November 2010: Went to Seoul embassy to see if I could use birth cert to get passport.

2009

• March 2009: Became a Peruvian citizen due to marriage.
• March 2009: Put Romanian citizenship project on temporary hold.
• December 2009: Applied for my Romanian birth cert.

2008

• February 2008: Moved back to Peru.
• March 2008: Sent documents to lawyer and trying to study Romanian. 
• May 2008: Changed tactics. If we prove my mom's a citizen then I'd get citizenship by default. 
• August 2008: Sent more documents to lawyer. Still waiting and studying Romanian.   
• October 2008: More docs sent off.
• November 2008: Still waiting.

2007

• January 2007: Applied to correct mom's US marriage certificate and my US birth cert.
• June 2007: UNHCR laws prohibit citizenship from being revoked if acquired by birth.
• August 2007: Started contacting lawyers.
• August 2007: Found a god lawyer.
• August 2007: Got correct docs: my birth certificate and mom's corrected marriage certificate. 
• September 2007: Signed a contract with an Irish lawyer who's living in Romania.
• September 2007: Having (more) issues with the Chicago consulate.
• October 2007: Having issues with the Romanian embassy in Lima.
• November 2007: Moved to Korea.
• November 2007: My mom got the docs I sent her from Peru.

2006

• January 2006: Gave up. The Chicago consulate denied my mom's a Romanian citizen.
• February 2006: I got married in Peru.
• October 2006: Started trying again.
• December 2006: Visited the Romanian embassy in Lima, Peru.

2005

• January 2005: All my mom's documents have been translated.
• January 2005: My mom got her US passport, but it has her old name.
• March 2005: My mom has problems with all her different names. See also Name Change.
• May 2005: My father's mom died.
• July 2005: Name change request for my mom's birth cert finalized (took about 9 months).
• July 2005: Told that we needed to change my mom's marriage cert as well.

2004

• October 2004: Started process to get a Romanian passport.
• November 2004: Submitted mother's name change request for her Romanian birth certificate.

1999

• Fall 1999: Called the Chicago consulate and was told that my mom wasn't Romanian because she hadn't lived there for years and didn't speak Romanian.

In the beginning

• 1950s: Mom was born in Romania. 
• 1950s: Mom moved to U.S. at when she was about 1 year old with my grandmother and my aunt. Her dad came 3 years later. 
• 1960s: Mom was naturalized as an American at age 9, and changed her name from Mihaela to Michele as well as the the order of her given names.
• 1980s: I was born
• 1990s: My mom's dad died.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

Disclaimer:

• Please join my Patreon page
• University of Toronto's Online TEFL Course