Trying to Get Romanian Citizenship Again

In early 2014 I was told that I couldn't get Romanian citizenship by the embassy in Lima. This was confirmed again in summer of 2014 by the consulate in Chicago.

However, about a week ago I was put in contact with a lawyer named Ioan-Luca Vlad (Linked / Facebook) who has been working as an attorney with the Romanian Royal Family for 9 years. He also has a website called Romanian Documents. He has a lot of experience with difficult cases such as mine and was able to help the Royal Family get their Romanian documents even though they had none.

I do have lots of roadblocks. I have had 3 legal names in the US (maiden, marriage, marriage) and 2 legal names in Peru (maiden, marriage) and documents from 3 countries (USA, Peru, Korea). I also found out that the document issued by the Ministry of Internal Affairs that I thought said my mom still has citizenship simply says she was a citizen when she left Romania.

If everything goes well I should be able to get a new Romanian birth certificate (with a valid CNP), get my mom a CNP, and get a document saying I'm Romanian. If I'm lucky I might get a Romanian passport. We're not exactly sure how things will go due to all the names I have had and documents from all these countries, but we will see how it goes. In addition, the Romanian Embassy here in Seoul will not let me give Ioan-Luca power of attorney (even though they let me give it to my ex) since I don't speak Romanian. We are trying to find a work-around but that just further complicates things.

I'm very excited about all this and hope things go well. Even if things don't work out I can honestly said I exhausted all possibilities trying to get citizenship.

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News about my CNP

It's officially been 4 weeks since my docs were presented at the Romanian embassy in Lima. We were told that it would take 3-4 weeks for them to find out about my CNP. My husband called and it seems they have a dilemma about my name. They're not sure whether to use my maiden name or my married name.

I honestly don't mind which name they use as long as I can get my CNP. They've asked for a scan of my marriage certificate, which my husband is going to email to them. I thought that he had already shown them our marriage certificate, but I guess they just glanced at it or didn't make a copy or he didn't give them a copy. I'm not sure. All I know is that I'm glad he called when he did or else we'd be waiting even longer.

He thought about sending other documents, such as my license or degrees, but I don't think that would help since none of my documents have been apostillised and all it would prove is the name I had and the name I have now.

They need to see a link between my maiden name and my married name. I did what they do in Peru when they get married. I kept my maiden name, then added "de" and then my husband's first name. Here's an example with both a woman with one last names and a woman with two last names.

• Mary Smith gets married to John Doe Black. In Peru she'd then change her name to either Mary Smith de Doe.
• Mary Smith Jones gets married to John Doe Black. In Peru she'd then change her name to either Mary Smith Jones de Doe.

I only had one last name, so my married name is like the first example. So my husband is going to email them a scan of our marriage certificate along with my old passport with my maiden name. I hope that we get the answer soon so that I can apply for my Romanian marriage certificate this year since the fee might go up next year.

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Organising Documents Once Again

I'm in the US and got the folder of documents that my lawyer sent. I've organised everything and am hoping to go to the embassy in Seoul in August. One of my friends knows someone at the embassy and another one of my friends is Romanian. I'm hoping that somehow one (or both of them) will be able to help me out some way or another and I can finally get my CNP and my passport.

I've got ...

• My American original birth cert (with my mom's name change so that it matches her US naturalisation record) as well as a translation with apostillisation.
• My Romanian original birth cert.
• An apostilised copy of my mom's new Romanian birth cert.
• My mom's marriage cert (with my mom's name change so that it matches her US naturalisation record) as well as a translation with apostillisation.
• An original letter from the Ministry of Internal Affairs stating that my mom is a Romanian citizen. 
• My original Peruvian marriage cert as well as a translation with apostillisation. 
• Permission from my husband to register my marriage.
• Permission from my husband to change my name. 
• My husband's original Peruvian birth cert as well as a translation with apostillisation.
• An apostillised copy with translation of my husband's Peruvian passport.
• My grandfather's original death cert as well as a translation with apostillisation.

Here's hoping it works!

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Apostillised permission to change my name and register my marriage

Ta-da! It cost about $5.50 to get all 6 docs apostillised. I got everything done just in case. And it only took a day, plus two trips to Seoul, which takes about 1.5 hours each way. Here's what's going to be DHLed to Romania.

• Permission to change my name from my husband in English and Romanian.
• Permission to change my name from my husband only in English. 
• Permission to register our marriage from my husband in English and Romanian. 
• Permission to register our marriage from my husband only in English.
• Power of attorney from me.
• Power of translation from me.
• A new Peruvian marriage cert that's been apostillised.

My mom has gotten a copy of her US passport notarised as well as a power of attorney and power of translation. They've been sent to the apostillise and she's waiting to get them back.

I've got a good feeling about this. I'm hoping all this hardwork will pay off this year and we'll be able to move to Romania soon!

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Got 4 docs notarised

My husband needed to give me permission to change my name and register my marriage. I needed to give POA to my lawyer again and submit a sworn statement saying why I deserve citizenship.

We went back to the same notary before and expected it to be very easy like it was last time. Unfortunately it wasn't. After explaining for what seemed like the tenth time that we wanted four notarisations and not two, they said that we would need everything translated into Korean.

Trying to explain to them that no, they didn't need to know what was in the docs and that our signatures were the only important thing was like hitting our heads against brick walls.

They called someone who said it cost 60,000 to translate it and it wouldn't be ready today. Someone else came down from another office and found a solution. Yea for thinking outside the box. He said I could use goggle translate to summarise what was on the docs and they'd notarise it.

So I did.

Then very officially the man called us up looked at our IDs and asked our birthdays and if the signatures on the docs were ours (of course they were, we had just signed in front of him) and then they were notarised.

It took about an hour start to finish and only cost 62,000 for four docs and last time it cost 50,000 for two. I don't understand why it was cheaper this time, but I'm glad it was.

Now I just need to get them apostillised.

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The bases are loaded

Ok, we're in the home stretch! We need to re-do the docs that my husband signed (permission to register our marriage and permission for me to change my name) to put our Korean address on it. I also have to sign a new POA and a translation POA and so does my mom. We've got all the bases covered with all our names, including putting our last names first, so fingers crossed this will be the year.

I called the Romanian embassy and they won't help with translations since I'm not a Romanian citizen (yet!) and they said it's not possible since I don't speak Romania (yet! and we'll see!).

If all goes according to plan we'll get these docs executed this month and sent to Romania in February and maybe this Christmas I'll have my passport in hand!

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Notary check

So we got the name change and passport request notarised here in Suwon. They put the English and Romanian version together, so we only had to pay for 2 notarisations. Cost was about $25 each, compared to $1 in Peru and absolutely free in the US.

I've scanned them and emailed them to my lawyer. If he oks them that we'll get them apostillised, and that only costs $1.

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FAQ: How much longer is it going to take you?

The long and short of it is I don't know. We can guess, but they're always asking us for more paperwork. As of now, supposedly we're almost done, we just need the following documents:

• A letter from my husband giving me permission to change my name from my maiden name to my married name.
• A letter from my husband giving me permission to register our marriage in Peru.
• For my name to be changed in Romania.
• For our marriage to be registered in Romania.
• For my CNP to be issued.
• For my passport to be issued (supposedly I can apply here at the Korean embassy).

The two letters will take at least a month to get done since they need to be legalised and apostillised and therefore will have to be sent to Peru.
The name change and registration of our marriage should take about 4 months.
The CNP is probably another 4 months.
The passport is up to 6 months.

Now this is IF everything goes according to plan. Keep in mind that while I was in Romania for nearly a month, no office accepted any of my documents. Best case senario I can apply for my passport in June of next year and have my Romanian passport in my hot little hands by Christmas. My lawyer is optimistic, though having finally seen first hand what things are like in Romania, I'm really not sure what to think anymore.

By who really knows? They might say I'm missing some paperwork, or offices might not take my documents, or they might keep odd hours.

Fingers crossed I'll have my passport ASAP, but no matter what I'm going to keep trying until they say no.

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Day 9 in Romania: paperwork in Bucharest

← Day 8 in Romania

Today I went to the Social Security Registry with my lawyer's wife. Things didn't go well from the start. On the door there was a sign that said they only attend to the public one day a week, and for 2 hours. You just look at these signs and think, this must be a joke. How can government offices only have 2 office hours a week? Yet they do.

So they told us to go back to Sector 1, where we were the other day, and try to register my marriage there. But Sector 1 had sent us here. We were clearly being given the run around. I'm not sure if that's because no one wanted to do any work or they had no idea what to do with me.

Anyways, we found out that my husband has to sign papers to give me permission to register my marriage and change my name. A bit chauvanistic if you ask me.

The good news is that it takes 4 months to do all that. The bad news is that first they have to accept your documents and so far no one has done that.

Sector 1 told us that we had to come on Tuesday at 4pm to put our names on the waiting list and then go on Wednesday to actually talk to someone. Yet when we went on Tuesday at 4pm, they were closed and the security guard said the time to put your name on the waiting list had changed and was now 9am on Sunday. The only thing I can do is shake my head in disbelief and wonder how the heck they got into the EU.

I went to their house for dinner. She's a great cook. I'm jealous. I can't cook worth beans. She told me to buy Jamie Oliver and Harry Eastman's books. Maybe, but if I found the ingredients in Korea, they'd probably be way out of my price range.

I'm off to Timisoara tomorrow. My first of two big trips.

→ Day 10 in Romania

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Passport problems

Darn it! My lawyer has told me that I have to present the paperwork for my passport myself, in person. There's also the issue that Romania doesn't accept foreign marriage certs. Mine is from Peru, my mom's is from the US.

Good news is that my lawyer CAN register our marriages in Romania and send us all the documentation. Then I will take that and try to apply here in Seoul. My only worry is that my birth cert doesn't have the Romania ID number on it, so I don't know how I can prove that I'm Romanian.

Worse comes to worse, they say no and we try to do it in Romania when I go this summer.

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FAQ: Name change

Question
Based on your early messages on this thread, it seems your mother was able to change her legal name in Romania without first obtaining a Romanian passport. Is there any reason you cannot do it the same way she did it?

Answer
I don't think so. Her name was changed becuase she was naturalised as a US citizen. She was also only 9 at the time and changed it because she didn't like it. I was an adult when I changed mine. My mom changed her name after she was Romanian. She was Romanian at birth. I changed my name after I became Romanian (since I just got my birth cert in early 2010, I guess that's when I "became" Romanian.

Question
I don't see why that should make a difference. Your mother changed her name as a child when she naturalized, and you changed your name as an adult when getting married. Nevertheless you both changed it outside Romania, and needed to get your foreign (meaning non-Romanian) name change recognized in Romania. Your mother got her name change recognized in Romania about 5 years ago (shortly after you started this thread) and did so without ever obtaining a Romanian passport.

All the Romanian government cares is that the name was changed outside Romania. How or when it was legally changed outside Romania would make no difference insofar as registering the name change with Romania. So I don't see why you shouldn't be able to have Romania register your name change any differently than your mother did.

Answer
I completely agree with you, however, the RO govt doesn't. I believe my mom had to change her stuff since she was a Romanian since birth. Anyways, the important thing is that she is still passport and not allowed to register her marriage in Romania by the Chicago consulate

The difference would be that she already had a Romanian passport. It wasn't valid, but anyways her application for a Romanian passport AND Romanian marriage cert was denied based on.
1. She didn't speak Romanian.
2. She hadn't lived there in decades.
3. She didn't have a valid marriage cert and couldn't get a passport.
4. She didn't have a valid passport and couldn't get a married cert.

It's not logical, I know. That that's the whole point; the system isn't logical.

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FAQ: Registering your marriage with Romania

Question
What if you don't inform them of your being married, request the passport under your maiden name, and then once you have the passport you can let them know you are married and have a new name (if you even want to bother at that point)?

Answer
No can do. I have to show current documentation, which would be my US passport, which has my married name.

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FAQ: Why is it taking so long?

Question
Hi naturegirl321 (again),

I assume you are still too busy to have completed this? (BTW, the fact that you now have your Romanian birth certificate means they officially recognize you as a citizen. So the hard part is over, you just need to finalize the paperwork formalities.)

Anyways, I'm researching the same issue you had with your mother changing her name after she came to the U.S. What document(s) did your mother have to submit to the Romanian consulate to change her name in Romania? Was it just her U.S. naturalization certificate, or did they need anything else as well? If so, what else? And did they need her original U.S. naturalization certificate or just a photocopy? Do they also require copies (or originals) of your and/or your mother's photo ID card (i.e. U.S. Driver License or U.S. Passport)?

And one thing I didn't get clearly from your post, was why your mother had to change her name on her U.S. Marriage certificate, if she was already going to just change her name in Romania to match her U.S. name?

Thanks again!

Answer
Not too busy, just moved to Korea. I need to get my marriage cert legalised by the Romanian embassy in Lima. My husband has been calling for over a month and they haven't picked up the phone.

Also, here's the catch.
In order to get my RO marriage cert, I need a valid RO passport.
In order to get a RO passport, I need a RO marriage cert.

I don't really think that the birth cert proves citizenship. I think the passport does. And I still don't have that. My mom has her birth cert and was denied a passport. They told her the same thing at the Chicago consulate, no passport they won't issue her with a marriage cert. No marriage cert, they won't issue her with a passport. It's a catch 22. I have a lawyer working on it.

Plus, neither of us speaks Romanian. I can read and understand a bit though.

Timewise for my mother's name change in Romania, it took 9 months. For her name change on my birth cert and her marriage cert it was 7 months.

She didn't submit antyning to the consulate. They refused to help her at the Chicago consulate. She had to get her cousin in Romania to help. She had to give a power of attorney and her old birth cert as far as I know, as well as her US naturalisation cert. I believe she just sent regular photocopies.

My mother had to change her name because she had only used TWO of her THREE names. She had TWO names on my birth cert and my marriage cert. And THREE on her naturalisation cert. And the THREE on her naturalisation cert weren't the same THREE on her Romanian birth cert. ONE name had been Americanized.

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Update on my mom's name change on US docs

Just got confirmation about the name changes. It will take seven months from the date they sent the letter, so hopefully in September we'll have the name change on her US marriage cert and my US birth cert.

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Romanian Embassy in Lima, Peru

Just visited the counsel here in Lima. They said with my mother's birth cert, marriage cert from the US, proof that it's registered in Romania, and my birth cert, I can become Romanian.

Now we just have to register her marriage with RO and change her name on my birth cert because she left out one of her middle names.

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Changing my mom's marriage cert

Good news! Hopefully, my mom will be able to change her name. I asked my mom for the website and I emailed the church record dept and they told me to email the county. Hopefully with emails and phone calls, they can change the name quickly and then finish the process so that she can finally get her passport.

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Marriage cert problems

Of course it's too good to be true. Now they are telling her that she has to change her marriage certificate so that her name matches her new birth certificate and USA naturalisation papers. All of this because she changed her name when she was nine years old. After this, then she can register her marriage and then finally a passport.

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FAQ: Why doesn't Romanian recognise your mom's Romanian?

Question
What stumps me is this: by simple virtue of her mother being Romanian, why didn't she bring this fact to the attention of the Romanian immigration authorities, irrespective of what per mum's perceived citizenship might be. It strikes me as the logical procedure.

Answer
I've been to the authorities. Here are the problems. She changed her name when she became naturalissed. She changed her name when she got her license at age 16. She go got married and changed her name. She never registered this info with the authoriites. Before they will issue her a passport, she has to do that. Then she has to register me as her child and then I can get a passport. You can't just walk into the embassy and demand a passport without the proper docs. And I agree, it would seem logical, but I have to follow the rules that the Romanian govt sets.

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FAQ: How can your mom not know she's Romanian?

Question
Naturegirl, How can anyone not know what nationality they are?

Seriously, I take your point about your mum not realising she still retained Romanian citizenship, but if you had any real desire to get Romanian citizenship, and knowing your mum HAD BEEN Romanian, wouldn't it have been perfectly logical to ENQUIRE? You know, TRY ALL ANGLES? Surely, it must have occured to you that having a parent born in a country MIGHT get you citizenship? At least, find out?

Answer
Ok, My mom came to the States when she was a little over a year old and became a citizen when she was nine. Under Romanian law at that time, my grandmother lost her American citizenship when she married a Romanian. My mom thought that when she became an American, she lost Romanian citizenship. However, she didn't know that although under USA law, she was only an American, under Romanian law she was Romanian (in 1991 when they gave citizenship back to her. Since she left under the communist regime she was considered to have committed treason and her Romanian citizenship was revoked.)  I'm currently in the process of getting citizenship, it just take forever as my mom has to register her marriage, register her name change, get a passport, then I have to register my birth, my marriage (hopefully this year), and then I can get a passport.

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Too many names

So my mom is trying to change her name. Because she has four different names. NOw she has to send her naturalisation papers to Romania, because they say that they need to verify that she is a Romanian citizen. I don't see what that has to do with a name change in Romania.

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