FAQ: Can Romanians work in the EU?

Question
Romanian citizenship will not grant you the legal right to work in Europe. Since Romania's not part of the EU, the process of obtaining a work permit in any European country is a nightmare most employers fear and try to avoid as much as possible. Your skills and qualifications will not matter when put into balance with the citizenship, you can trust me on that.

Answer
I know, but if they join in 2007, by then I should be Romanian and will have the legal right to work in the EU.

Question
It wouldn't be until 2014 that citizens of those countries could work in the other EU countries without a permit. I know Ireland is an exception... Are there any others?

Answer
I don't know about Ireland or any other EU countries. However, even if I have to wait until 2014, it'll still be worth it. And my kids will also be able to live and work there too. Check the official EU website on where Romanians can work and when. There's also info about work permits from the official EU website and here's an article about restrictions placed on Bulgarians and Romanians. Even though Romania is in the EU, some EU countries will still require Romanians to get a work permit.

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Changing my mom's marriage cert

Good news! Hopefully, my mom will be able to change her name. I asked my mom for the website and I emailed the church record dept and they told me to email the county. Hopefully with emails and phone calls, they can change the name quickly and then finish the process so that she can finally get her passport.

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Marriage cert problems

Of course it's too good to be true. Now they are telling her that she has to change her marriage certificate so that her name matches her new birth certificate and USA naturalisation papers. All of this because she changed her name when she was nine years old. After this, then she can register her marriage and then finally a passport.

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Mom's new birth cert

My mom finally got her documents back. She has a new birth certificate that matches her name that she got when she was naturalised as a USA citizen. Now the next step is registering her marriage and then she can apply for a passport.

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FAQ: Tell me more about your quest

Question
Let me ask a series of questions, that will hopefully clear up the confusion here:

1. When exactly did you first decide to look for Romanian citizenship?

2. Did you mention the fact of your mum's Romanian BIRTH to the Romanian authorities AT THAT TIME?

3. If you did, what did they say? Why did they not tell you at that point that she was still a citizen, in WHICH case you would be eligible for citizenship.

4. If they HAD told you this at that point, why did you announce it as a surprise in October 2004 that you had just found out she was a citizen. If you answer those four questions individually, clearly and concisely, then we may get a step closer to solving this riddle.

Answer
1. I started looking for citizenship in October 2004. I had orginally called them in the fall of 1999 and when I told them that my mom was now an American, they said that it was impossible that I get Romanian citizenship.

2. Yes.

3. I did mention my mom's Romanian birth to the authorities at the time, but if she and I want passport, we have to do the paperwork.

4. I was surprised, because my mom had always thought that she was only a US citizen.

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FAQ: Aren't you automatically Romanian since your mom was born there?

Question
You then come waltzing in and announce that you have just found out that your mother was still a Romanian citizen. if you knew all along that your mother HAD BEEN BORN in Romania (forget her citizenship for the moment, here), why didn't you make raising this with the Romanian authorities your very first action? They would have informed you that she was still a citizen; more pertinently, they would have informed you that this fact would in itself render you eligible for citizenship.

In simple terms, here, you omitted to tell them something very important when you first started your enquiries about citizenship. Why? How could you not think it was highly relevant, that your mother had been born there? This has nothing to do whatsoever with what you THOUGHT her citizenship was or what her name was. Is it that you omitted something really important through your negligence, and are now trying to cover your embarrassment?

Answer
I did raise the born in Romania question, showed the passport from Romanian. However, since it was issued over 40 years ago, and my mom changed her name multiple times, and got married. She has to register all these things. They told me that she and I are citizens, but before I can get the passport, reigstries need to be made.

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FAQ: What documents do you need to become Romanian?

Question
When you had the VERY FIRST thought about obtaining Romanian citizenship (well before you started this diary), you already knew that your mother was born there. Why didn't you ask the authorities in Romania AT THAT VERY MOMENT what you would need? You might have gotten enough information so that you would KNOW that your mother still had the possibility of holding citizenship... instead of waiting for that little piece of info to fall into your lap accidentally.

Answer
I did ask them at that very moment what I needed. She still holds citizenship, but needs a LOT of docs. I was 17 when I first called the embassy. As I said before, we were all under the impression that America didn't let you hold more than one citizenship.

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FAQ: Why doesn't Romanian recognise your mom's Romanian?

Question
What stumps me is this: by simple virtue of her mother being Romanian, why didn't she bring this fact to the attention of the Romanian immigration authorities, irrespective of what per mum's perceived citizenship might be. It strikes me as the logical procedure.

Answer
I've been to the authorities. Here are the problems. She changed her name when she became naturalissed. She changed her name when she got her license at age 16. She go got married and changed her name. She never registered this info with the authoriites. Before they will issue her a passport, she has to do that. Then she has to register me as her child and then I can get a passport. You can't just walk into the embassy and demand a passport without the proper docs. And I agree, it would seem logical, but I have to follow the rules that the Romanian govt sets.

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FAQ: Did your mom lose Romanian citizenship when she became an American?

Question
Naturegirl, are you telling us that while you were growing up, you DID NOT KNOW where your mother was born? Did she hide that fact from you? I guess I had the same questions: When I read in NG's initial post that she had "just found out that [her] mother is Romanian", I wondered where she'd thought her mother had been born. The U.S.? Somewhere else?

Answer
No, my mother immigrated when she was a little over a year old. But was born to an American mother and Romanian father. Under Romanian law, my granmother gave up her American citizenship by marrying a Romanian. My mom became American at age 9. My mom, her sister, mother, and father never went back to Romania. I've never been to Romania either. We all thought that by becoming American, she had given up Romanian citizenship.

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Positive comments

Over the years I have received negative and positive comments. Here are some of the positive comments I've gotten. 

2012

• "Ten out of ten for perseverance." Good luck! July 2012, grahamb from Dave's ESL Cafe.
• "I'm very excited for you that this Romanian thing may be completed soon! You certainly have perseverance - many people would have given up long ago. I hope THIS time it will be done." Mom, 23 January 2012.

2011

• "I don't know how you find the time for all the things you do. I wish I was as well-organised! All the best. Graham" 11 April 2011, grahamb from Dave's ESL Cafe.
• "Awesome, NG. Acum, poti invata romaneste!! Espanol le ayudara. I'm a little envious. Congrats." 18 February 2011, scroetem from Dave's ESL Cafe. (about finding out that my mom is registered as a Romanian)
• "Congratulations! Once you have your Romanian passport, how will that help you with your professional goals?" 17 February 2011, Isla Guapa  from Dave's ESL Cafe. (about finding out that my mom is registered as a Romanian)

2010

• "Hi naturegirl321, Thank you for posting the looong multi-year process you've gone through to document your Romanian citizenship. It is a MAJOR help to anyone considering going through the same steps. (And this thread is one of the top Google results when searching to get Romanian citizenship through parents/grandparents.) And congratulations on getting your Romanian birth certificate. It sure sounds like they finally recognized (admitted may be a better word!) you are a Romanian citizen by birth. Where are you holding in this process right now? Good Luck! (You truly deserve it after putting in almost 6 years of work -- which I'm sure was very time consuming for you -- to get this working correctly!)" 12 April 2010, josephf from Dave's ESL Cafe. 

2008

• "I have read this entire thread and have something to say about it. Those who have criticized NG for wanting to go to Romania or become a citizen are truly harsh. She has devoted a large piece of her life for others to gain knowledge from her quest. I read in the beginning all of the negative posts and outright defamatory comments on her long drawn out struggles, and while reading knew of that same struggle. It is to be Romanian, or the want of it, that one would go to such lengths to be there or go there and live. To go back over the years of posts and quote things was something I wished to do, yet, at this point probably couldn't do. However let me say this. I would have gone through the same struggle to get there as she has. I have seen those here who have talked about Romania as a place not to go to, or to stay away from for financial reasons. I wish to say that I myself was living in Romania over the hot summer of last year, and can say to you that it is a place of beauty and stark contrasts. There are so many things that Romania has going for it that I couldn't list them all. Those who think otherwise are not Romanian, because to be Romanian, all you can think about is Romania. Romania is a place of hardship and toil, but it is that very thing that makes Romania strong. It has known suffering, it has known communist rule, it has struggled with poverty, it has struggled with pain, the people know about the many in depth struggles. Yet, for all of their problems they have an inner strength that is triple that of the USA or any other country on earth. While this is my opinion only, I speak from experience, the experience that is Romania is something that once true souls manage to find, is something that one can never forget. In my struggles through this life the one place I have found to be truly passionate is Romania. You can't speak about Romania without speaking of the passion and the struggle to survive there. Romania is also the most romantic place on earth. There is so much passion in the women there that men easily fall prey to it, and once under that spell you will never recover. Romanian women are the finest looking, the finest bred, and the most cultured on the planet. I know of NG's struggle, for I have the same struggle myself. Some in this thread have talked about how poor the wages are, let me tell you this. I would pay YOU to let me live there and work. I wouldn't care about how bad the wages were as long as it supported me in a closet and gave me the barest of necessities in which to live. That is how I feel about Romania. It is a place to aspire to, not to avoid. I can tell you this, those who have posted in this thread in the negative about RO are either too westernized or too demanding for their own needs, because RO is not a place whereby one comes to find riches and wealth, it is for the experiences that one to comes to RO. While there is plenty of money flowing into RO right now, it is not the sole purpose in going, rather it is to feel the passion that RO is and forever shall be. As I said, I would literally live as a babushka in the street as long as I could live there and work. I wouldn't care about the money at all, I just want to go home, because RO is my home, and always has been my home. It is in my blood, my soul, my very being. NG, I can full well appreciate your struggles to get there and become Romanian. I myself would do anything, say anything, be anything just to live in RO. It is a passion which dwells within RO that I have felt, and which has captured my soul. You can't walk or run away from it once you have been captured by it. To those who have in the past made fun of your quest I would say this, you are not Romanian, nor would ever know what it is like to be Romanian or even want to be Romanian. For to know Romania, you would have known the soul it has, and the passionate embrace that it gives you once you are there. To the few who have commented negatively, I would also say why even come to this thread if not to show where your heart truly is. You have to be empty of spirit and soul to comment in such a way to NG's struggle to get home. To those who have said that Romania is a tough place and not to come, I would say this, let me come and work for you, you can pay me slave wages, and each and every day you would see a smile on my face and a warm embrace for allowing me the opportunity to be home in Romania. I would crawl, swim, walk or crawl on my belly to get back to RO. If you have a job there, let me have it. I don't care about wages, I don't care about living conditions, I don't care about anything else but to be there. If you have a job there, and are looking for someone to teach, I would jump on the plane tomorrow just to get there. As I said, I would live in a closet just to be able to get home and stay there. NG, don't let anyone sway you from your dreams, for they are only jealous of your desire to go someplace where your heart and soul is. It is bred into you by birth that you are Romanian, and no one or nothing should ever stop your quest to get what you want. I applaud your efforts, I also know and share with you your desire to be somewhere which you have felt was your right. It is the same for me, only passionate people know of Romania, only passionate people know of the desire to get there and stay there. Despite all the hardships and the toils of life, Romania is a place we can all hopefully one day achieve. To those that are there and find nothing, I say you have not looked, because if you had you would know from where I speak. So, we both know of RO, and let me say this NG, you are right, your quest is worth it. FIGHT IT all the way down the line until they give you what you want. It's your right. BTW, thank you for all of your posts and links and everything in between. You are a true champion for others... Long Live Romania.........." 12 January 2008, El from Dave's ESL Cafe. 

2007

• "Strikes me Naturegirl has taken the trouble to post here in the hope that her experiences may be able to help others. Anyone who doesn't want to read it of course, doesn't have to. It strikes me that NG is trying hard to carve out a life with her husband, and to have children etc. Being a (possibly illegal) TEFL backpacker in Europe would certainly not help her achieve that! She is American, yes? If so, it's not that easy for Americans to get visas/permits to live and/or work in Europe. If NG is claiming what appears to be her birthright to Romanian citizenship, why shouldn't she? As a resident in Romania myself, I do know that many people whose parents/grandparents left the country under duress, are now wishing to claim citizenship. Even if we were to look at it from a purely utilitarian viewpoint, if getting Romanian citizenship helped her achieve her objectives, why shouldn't she pursue that angle? Who really has the right to preach to her what she should or shouldn't do, or whether she is scheming or not? Survival is the noblest cause of all, and trying to create something better for herself, her husband and future children, merits considerable respect in my mind. That's ultimately what most of us are trying to do: survive and create something better for ourselves. If people don't like what you write, they don't have to read it. They certainly don't have to criticize it. Go for it, NG." 1 December 2007, Bebsi from Dave's ESL Cafe. 

2006

• "Many of the replies of NG's efforts to gain her Romanian citizenship showed quite puerile behavior. You did not have to read her posts nor did you have to reply. I have known others who have had difficulty with the same thing from other countries. The rules and steps seem clear until you begin the process and encounter numerous levels of bureaucracy. I myself have dual citizenship and many people wonder why since the 2nd country is poor, not powerful, etc. Yes, I know that many in that country would rather have American nationality. However, my desire for it is somewhat indefinable but is part of my identity, part of my cultural background. It speaks of who my people were and are. This I would hesitate to give up or to not acquire if given the opportunity." 2 June 2006, bgrocks from Dave's ESL Cafe. 

2005

• "What a fuss about what NG should and shouldn't have done. For what it's worth, I take my hat off to her for making the effort to get that elusive second passport. I find it ironic that people should bitch about someone who's simply trying to improve her life. Give the lady a break." 12 June 2005, grahamb from Dave's ESL Cafe.
• "Naturegirl, I don't envy you the problems with red tape (can't spell that other word) but take solace from one American teacher I worked with who came to Lithuania looking for her 'roots' (plus passport) only to find that the town her parents apparantly came from had been mired in some early 20th century territorial dispute between Lithuania, Poland and Belarus - and none of them seemed to recognise it as having belonged to them. Imagine trying to deal with 3 Eastern European beaurocratic (uh oh) machines simultaneously. I'll keep my fingers crossed that they still let Romania into the EU. I think the folk in the rich countries have recently realised that last enlargement they let 100 million beggars into their club, and now the votes on the new constitution are happening they're in no mood to let in any more. Think I heard there are legal obligations to letting Bulgaria and Romania in though. Good luck with it anyway." 7 June 2005, EnglishBrian from Dave's ESL Cafe.

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FAQ: Why not show the embassy your mom's Romanian passport?

Question
If you knew that your mum was Romanian by birth, why did you not bring this (irrespective of your mum's PERCEIVED citizenship) to the attention of the Romanian authorities at the very beginning?
As one who greatly appreciates the irony in a situation, it indeed brings a smile to my lips that an American would be striving so hard to get Romanian citizenship, when the average Romanian would die (or among the clearer thinkers among them, kill) to get US citizenship.

Answer
My mom's passport expired about 40 odd years ago. First she has to register her name change, then her marriage and then she can get a passport. She has to prove to the Romanian authorities that she is Romanian for them to believe her. And yes, most Romanians would die to get US citizenship, you 'd think that it would be easier to get Romanian citizenship, but we started last Oct, and it will proabbly be another year before I have a RO passport.

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FAQ: How could you not know your mom's Romanian?

Question: You wrote that on Oct 30 2004 you just found out that my mother is Romanian.How did you not know before that? This is what puzzles me!! Even if you hadn't known that she retained her citizenship, would you not have known she was Romanian by birth? And with this knowledge, would it not have been the most logical step to go to the Romanian authorities at the beginning (instead of agonising for ages in this forum, as you appear to have done), and deduce from them at that point that in the circumstances, she was indeed still a citizen, thus making you elibigble? I am utterly bewildered by this!

Answer: My mother thought that if she became American, she would give up previous citizenship. This whole time she was under the impression that she had given up Romanian citizenship. The truth was that in America's eyes, she was only American, However, Romania did and still does recognise dual cit, so this whole time, she was Romanian.

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FAQ: Why didn't you approach the Romanian authorities?

Question
I have indeed read NG's original posting. However, after making many enquiries...some of which appear rather unlikely and indeed less than rational...it FINALLY dawns on her that maybe her mother being Romanian MIGHT be of help? Christ, it's the FIRST thing I would go for...ASKING the Romanian authorities! Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that she didn't pursue this avenue. When you trying to get citizenship of a country, the most logical step would appear to be to go to the relevant authorities and say " My mother (or whoever) was once a citizen of the country", to be told, I would assume "Oh, really? Then you are eligible as she is still a citizen."

Incidentally NG, why do the Romanian authorities concern themselves so much with your marriage cert, if you are marrying a Peruvian? If you were marrying a Romanian, that in itself would in time...is it four years?...qualify you. But why are they concerned with a Peruvian?

Answer:
I've contact the Romanian consulate in Chicago. We're going through the long process, It's take about two years. They are concerned with my mother's marriage cert, as her name on birth cert is different than her marriage cert and her naturalisation cert. My mother was born a Romanian citizen and has always been one.

They're concerned with the Peruvian docs, because I'd have to register my Peruvian marriage with the Romanian authorities.

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FAQ: How can your mom not know she's Romanian?

Question
Naturegirl, How can anyone not know what nationality they are?

Seriously, I take your point about your mum not realising she still retained Romanian citizenship, but if you had any real desire to get Romanian citizenship, and knowing your mum HAD BEEN Romanian, wouldn't it have been perfectly logical to ENQUIRE? You know, TRY ALL ANGLES? Surely, it must have occured to you that having a parent born in a country MIGHT get you citizenship? At least, find out?

Answer
Ok, My mom came to the States when she was a little over a year old and became a citizen when she was nine. Under Romanian law at that time, my grandmother lost her American citizenship when she married a Romanian. My mom thought that when she became an American, she lost Romanian citizenship. However, she didn't know that although under USA law, she was only an American, under Romanian law she was Romanian (in 1991 when they gave citizenship back to her. Since she left under the communist regime she was considered to have committed treason and her Romanian citizenship was revoked.)  I'm currently in the process of getting citizenship, it just take forever as my mom has to register her marriage, register her name change, get a passport, then I have to register my birth, my marriage (hopefully this year), and then I can get a passport.

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Too many names

So my mom is trying to change her name. Because she has four different names. NOw she has to send her naturalisation papers to Romania, because they say that they need to verify that she is a Romanian citizen. I don't see what that has to do with a name change in Romania.

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Mom got her US passport

My mom got her US passport, only took 3 weeks. So now she can start applying for all the Romanian documents. Though it has her old name, hope that won't be an issue.

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Translation complete

Well, I got all the paperwork translated by my mom's aunt and got my birth certificate notarized. My mom is waiting for her US passport. Then she can apply for her name change which is the first of many steps.

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