Visit to the Seoul embassy

Still waiting to hear if my grandmother, grandfather, or mother are registered in Romania.

I went to the embassy here in Seoul, Korea. Good news is that I could understand most of what they said. Bad news is, I presented all my docs and basically they said that there was a problem with my birth cert. When I got it, I noticed that the ID number was left off. I asked and said it wasn't necessary. However, it IS necessary since without that, I'm not registered as a Romanian.

So they said that I have to get my parents' licenses and their birth certs and present those. My father has refused to give me his, saying that people will steal his identity and my mother's name on her US driver's license doesn't match her birth name, so we'd be back where we started.

My lawyer is also working on stuff over there, but honestly I'm ready to give up. I finally got a birth cert and it's basically null and void.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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FAQ: What does the UNHCR say about rights to citizenship?

Question
If Romania is a signatory to the UNHCR, then you have a right to Romanian citizenship. You have a right to return to the country of your birth. You cannot lose your citizenship unless you specifically denounce/renounce citizenship (and this is a specific process). Bureaucrats are playing politics.

The solution is often beating them at their game before they play. Do the research. Quote the law at them. Treaties are legally binding and modify existing law (e.g. the Constitution) unless specifically overturned in court. What often happens is that something is rejected on a technicality. This protects the bureaucrat from responsibility.

The solution is twofold- give them legal basis to grant your claim and thereby protect them from mistakes. If Romania give Grandma citizenship, then she's got it. Next step (separate) apply for your own citizenship. One step at a time. You don't always dump all ingredients into a pan to make bread (dough must be kneaded, etc.) so why should you do other things that way?

Best wishes.

Answer
Romania's laws during the communist regime say that if you LEFT Romania, no matter what age, your citizenship was revoked. Here's what makes it worse. When my grandfather he left he wasn't even given a Romanian passport, just papers.

My grandmother was Romanian through marriage. She left with my mom and my aunt. They were given "stateless" passports, which according to the UNHCR isn't possible. I guess the loophole is that they were on my grandma's passport. Since she was a naturalised Romanian citizenship, maybe they could revoke her citizenship. And since my mom and my aunt were underage, they were simply put on my grandma's passport.

I've tried. Seriously I have. I'm ready to pull my hair out.

So in theory, if you want to uphold communist regime laws, then no one in my family HAS citizenship and we'd have to re-acquire it. My mom and I can't since our Romanian language skills aren't that good. They have to be fluent. And one the main reasons why I'm doing this is so that my kids can be citizens and I have to get citizenship before they're born and it looks like that's not going to happen.

I've tried quoted laws. For the past 10 years I've been searching for laws, Israel has the most compentent info. I FINALLY got my birth cert, after nearly a decade. Now they say it's no good. It's a Catch 22. Simply put: they don't WANT me to have citizenship, so I probably won't get it.

Until you've dealt with Romanian govt officials, you really have no idea what you're getting yourself into. I have a lawyer and he's also given the run around. They don't want us. That's it.

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Husband left Korea

He's decided to go back and work in Peru for up to a year.

Edit: He came back in February 2011.

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A bit of good news

In August 2008, we found out that if we can prove that my mom is still a citizen, then I'd be a citizen. We sent the documents, but due to personal issues on both sides (myself and my lawyer) we decided to put the project on hold in August 2009. We started up again earlier this year after I got my Romanian birth cert!

The Chicago consulate doesn't recognise her citizenship on the basis that her passport has long expired, she doesn't speak Romanian, and she hasn't lived there since she left. Fortunately, the UNHCR and the Romanian Consitution disagree with the Chicago consulate.

Giving Up Romanian Citizenship
According to Romanian law, my mother can't have had her Romanian citizenship revoked, because it was required by birth.

This is from EICEE.
(1) Romanian citizenship can be acquired, retained or lost as provided for by the organic law.
(2) Romanian citizenship cannot be withdrawn if acquired by birth.

This is from UNHCR: Article 5 (section 2) of the Constitution of Romania that was adopted by the Romanian Parliament on 21 November 1991 indicates that Romanian nationality acquired by birth cannot be taken away from anyone (Monitorul Oficial 21 Nov. 1991). The UNHCR also has an English copy of Romanian citizenship laws.

Next Steps
Therefore if either my grandfather, grandmother, or my mother is still registered as a Romanian according to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, then I would be Romanian and could get the passport. I doubt that my grandmother would be listed as a citizen, since she was naturalised and therefore her citizenship was easier to revoke. We're hoping that my mom is still a citizen, since my grandfather passed away and my mom is closer to me by ancestry.

So, if can prove that my mom is still a citizen and hasn't renounced her citizenship or had it revoked, then I'd be a citizen. We're 100% sure that she never renounced it since she couldn't talk when she left Romania. Now we just have to prove that Romania never revoked her of her citizenship, which incidentally, is no illegal according to UNHCR and the Romanian Constitution.

I should find out by September. That's about two months. Though I'm not holding my breath since things seem to take a long time to get done in Romania.

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FAQ: Why not go to Romania?

Question
You said, "The fact that I don't speak Romanian, nor have even stepped foot in the country isn't helping the matter."

Not only is it "not helping", it's the key part of the problem. If you just went there and integrated into the system, you'd probably be able to resolve your citizenship quest within a year. Two at tops. Romania is a place where you have to be there in person to get things done.

In Romania things are much like here in Korea. There's the official rules and procedures, and then there's the actual rules and procedures. Even without bribing people or getting an acquaintance to pull some strings for you, being there in person to argue your point of view or to push to get something done will get a lot more accomplished than writing and calling offices.

I think that you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Answer
First, I have a lawyer, IN Romania and he's been trying to do this since 2007. He has power of attorney, so that's not the issue. There's lots of paperwork and our case isn't exactly cut and dry either. Second, I don't have the means to go to Romania for two years. First off, I'd need a visa and don't think I'd be able to get one since Romania's now part of the EU. Second, if I don't have a visa, my husband won't get one either. Third, I suppose I could just go there every couple of months, but I don't have a job that lets me leave for months at a time.

Anyways, I did get my Romanian birth cert while in Peru Anyways, I have a lawyer in Romania and he's run into the same issues. I'm not the one making a mountain out of a mole hill, it's the govt.

Be sure to read about what has happened so far. You can find everything in the quick summary of dates.

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